[pmwiki-users] Strange pagelist behaviour

[Pico]

Marc Cooper wrote:
> Pico said...
>> Marc Cooper wrote:
>>> Pico said...
>>>>> From: Marc Cooper <gmane at auxbuss.com>
>>>>> Date: Mon, June 12, 2006 9:47 am
>>>>> To: pmwiki-users at pmichaud.com
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that the PmWiki FAQ is presenting different results in a new 
>>>>> (farm) wiki from the home wiki. Entries are missing from the home wiki. 
>>>>> They are using the same PmWiki files from wikilib.d. The differences are 
>>>>> in the section created by:
>>>>>
>>>>> (:pagelist trail=PmWiki.DocumentationIndex "[[#faq]]" fmt=#includefaq:)
>>>>>
[snip]
>>>>> To test, I tried this in the sandbox, and get the same results. I'm 
>>>>> using the latest 2.1.11 release.
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Pm did alot of work on 6/2/06, right after he released 2.1.9 moving
>>>> questions 
>>>> off of the FAQs page and onto to FAQs sections at the end of the
>>>> relevant documentation.
>>>>
>>>> So, I would expect the results of a faqs pagelist directive to include
>>>> many more entries 
>>>> when using the documentation pages distributed in versions 2.1.10 and up
>>>> than when using 
>>>> the documentation pages distributed from prior versions.
>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with this problem? Could you elaborate.
>>>
>> Everything.  You are using 2.1.11, which is right after Pm made changes 
>> to the documentation that cause the pagelist faq to return links that it 
>> would not be returned from a site that was using documentation 
>> distributed prior to 2.1.10.  If you compare the various specific items 
>> you listed with the history of Pm's changes to the FAQ page on June 2, 
>> 2006, you will see that he was moving FAQs to the same pages that you 
>> identified in your prior post as "(not on home)"
> 
> Okay, but that's a different story to the one you told before. But it's 
> good that we seem to be on the right track.
> 
I find that offensive: "a different story to the one you told before"

I gave you some background to help provide clues to your problem, you 
asked me to spell it out, and I did.  That's not a different story.

>> When I first saw your list, I recognized the documents that were 
>> appearing on both of your wiki sites as documents that have had faqs 
>> markup for quite some time and, at the same time, I recognized many of 
>> the documents that you identified as (not on home) as documents that had 
>> only recently had faqs markup added to them.  When I go back now and 
>> compare the "(not on home)" documents that you identified with the 
>> history of FAQ page, the match is striking.
> 
> That's cool. That's what I was after, someone who recognised the 
> pattern.

Sounds like I'm your tool.

> 
>> As they say, when you hear the hoof beats of a thundering herd, think 
>> horses, not zebras.  (Start with the most common and likely explanations).
>>
>>>> Anyway, the general answer here is that the faqs pagelist is gathering
>>>> its entries from pages on the trail defined by DocumentationIndex
>>> Yes, I know that fact, but it's not the answer.
>>>
>> It was an introduction, and I think it may ultimately provide more of an 
>> answer than you realize.
> 
[Count: 1]
> :-o
> 
>>>> and I would take a look at the actual content of
>>>> specific documentation pages to determine whether they contain a faqs
>>>> division and anchor at 
>>>> the end.  If they don't, then that will explain why they aren't showing
>>>> up on the pagelist.
>>> This is the same source files, the same skin, the same... well the same 
>>> everything, apart from the fact that the output from one is from the 
>>> home wiki and the other is not - the farm wiki has no files in it at 
>>> all, it's only using the shared files. The problem also occurs with 
>>> every skin that I've tried, so it's not <div>, <a> or skin related 
>>> related.
>>>
>> Look, I know you said that your two wikis are using the same pmwiki 
>> files from wikilib.d
> 
> They are.
> 
>> and that "this is the same source files, the same 
>> skin, the same... well the same everything".  I know you believe this to 
>> be true and I assume that you may have put your beliefs to the test by 
>> taking a look around your directories.
> 
> Oh yes.

But, apparently, different pageindex files.

> 
>> But the fact remains that what you describe sounds like it has a cause 
>> that can be easily tested and verified, even if it is not so easily 
>> explained or understood.
> 
> I have a small amount of knowledge of the field.
> 
>> The point here is not to test or challenge you, so please don't take it 
>> personally.
> 
> :-O

Obviously you just don't get it, do you.

I'm being so straight with you and you are toying with you little 
comments.

> 
>> The point is to simply test and challenge the most obvious 
>> cause for the behavior you are experiencing by taking one step back from 
>> the pagelist faq to examine what the documents look like that are 
>> feeding the pagelist faq and to compare the results between your two setups.
> 
> Yes, an obvious step.
> 
>> So, if you would humor me
> 
> :-O
> 
What exactly...

>> and just take a look at the documentation 
>> pages in dispute as they appear when you open them up in your "field" 
>> and "home" wiki.  Yes, even if you are convinced that they will look the 
>> same
> 
> :-O
...are you trying...
> 
>> because they must, because you see no reason why they wouldn't
> 
> :-O
> 
...to communicate with those surprisicons, and why?


>> just give it a try for the sake of diagnosing and ruling out the most 
>> likely cause (different versions of docs resulting in different output 
>> from the pagelist faq).
>>
>> Lets start with the first disputed link in your earlier example: Basic 
>> Editing.  Open that documentation page from your "farm" and from your 
>> "home" and compare the text that you see at the very end of each page. 
>> Does the document you see from your "farm" end with one (or two) 
>> question and answer pairs?  Take a look at the underlying markup, is 
>> there a faq division and anchor, like this ">>faq<< [[#faq]]" after the 
>> trail markup and before the first question?
> 
> Yes. The pages display identically and the markup is identical - not 
> only did I diff them in vim, but I also tried a c&p from the home wiki 
> to the farm in case there was a bit of quantum tunnelling going on.
> 
>> Now look at the Basic Editing documentation page as viewed and normally 
>> navigated from your "home".  Does it just end with the table and the 
>> wikitrail markup?
> 
> Nope.
> 
>> If so, then that would explain why that page does not 
>> show up on the pagelist when it is run from your "home" wiki.
> 
> Yes, it would, but it doesn't. Both pages show the two [[#faq]] entries.
> 
>> Don't just assume that they are the same because they must be: give it a 
>> serious inquiry.
> 
> I am indeed capable of "serious enquiry" from time to time.
> 

I never doubted it: the point was simply encourage you to take this 
particular line of inquiry seriously.

>> You should be able to repeat the same inquiry with any 
>> of the other documents that you identified as "(not on home)" and the 
>> results should be the same: question and answer pairs should appear at 
>> the end of the documents that you access from your "farm" but not from 
>> your "home"
> 
> Two was enough for me to look elsewhere.
> 
> I started by examining the order and format of:
> 
>     %trail% <<|[[Documentation Index]]|>>
> 
>     >>faq<< [[#faq]]
>     [[#beginning]]
>     Q: I'm new to PmWiki, where can I find some basic help for getting 
>     A: This [[Basic E
> 
> Some are [[Documentation Index]]|>> some are [[DocumentationIndex]]|>>
> Blank lines appear in different places. Looking for patterns. It lead to 
> a few dark alleys.
> 
> Then I tried pasting a "working" [[#faq]] entry into a "broken page", 
> replacing its [[#faq]]. Ah ha!
> 
> Anyway, the long and short of it is that I deleted the .pageindex file 
> in the home wiki, and missing items reappeared.
> 
> If that's common knowledge, then I apologise for my appalling ignorance 
> and will flagellate myself to the bone later today. If it's a bug, I 
> hope the information proved useful.
> 
>>> Looks like a potential bug to me, but I thought I'd run it past those 
>>> who might know first.
>>>
>> Thanks for giving others the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> :-o I'll be very wary about bringing bugs, fixes and suggestions here 
> again. Sorry to have caused so much trouble.
> 

Thats too bad.  Your bugs, fixes and suggestions would always be 
welcome.  The only thing I did not appreciate is all the baggage you 
dragged in and tossed at my feet, when all I was trying to do help you 
by supplying some clues that I recognized when I read your post.  In the 
end, I think those clues were helpful, even if the initial diagnostic 
step I proposed was not.

I think if you let it soak in you will see that there is a tremendous 
amount of goodwill around this list.  People step up to help each other 
all the time, and in whatever way they can.  There is nothing 
competitive going on among the people who hang in here and keep posting.

So, come on, let your guard and your sword down a bit and give 
non-confrontational posting a try.

Pico