[pmwiki-users] Announce: Slender, pmwiki-based wiki making a fresh start

Henrik henrik.bechmann at sympatico.ca
Thu Jan 18 15:17:07 CST 2007


Re [[<<]]

FWIW I use:

(:block-divider:) and (:block-spacer:) directives

Markup("block-divider", "fulltext", "/^\\(:block-divider:\\)/", "<div 
class='block-divider'></div>");

Markup("block-spacer", "fulltext", "/^\\(:block-spacer:\\)/", "<div 
style='height:8px;overflow:hidden;' class='block-divider'>&nbsp;</div>");

where

div.block-divider {
  margin:0;
  clear:both;
}

(Could probably be a little more concise by making the css inline.)

- Henrik

Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
> On 1/18/07, J. Meijer <commentgg at hotmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> For those with confidence in PmWiki but unhappy with its syntax.
>> Or those out of breath configuring it.
>>
>> Refer to http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/W7/Slender
>>
>> A proposal open for discussion.
>>     
>
> I'm glad to see the proposal, but I have a few comments on some
> of the items written in the proposal, as well as things written
> on the W7/W7 page.    My comments are longer than I think can
> reasonably fit on the Slender-Discussion page, so I'm posting them
> here.
>
> "Pm is generally unreceptive to syntax issues.":  I can see how
> people might feel this way, but I'm not sure that it's a fair
> comment.  Part of the point, power, and design of PmWiki is
> to make it possible to create their own syntax.  The fact that
> a proposed new or changed syntax doesn't make it into the core
> doesn't mean that it can't be supported via recipes or on the
> mailing list.  In many cases it simply means that the time/energy
> resources available mean that *I* can't support it.
>
> Note that PmWiki has been explicitly designed to make it easier 
> for someone to completely replace the core markup syntax with 
> alternates.  Simply setting $EnableStdMarkup = 0; disables the
> loading of scripts/stdmarkup.php, and then a recipe or admin
> can define a totally new sequence of markup rules, if desired.
> As far as I know, very few people have wanted to do this -- I
> suspect because the effort involved hasn't been worth the benefit.
> (Or perhaps there's something in the core that prevents it, but if
> this is the case let me know so I can remove the barriers.)
> But in no way am I against having alternate syntaxes -- the defaults
> are simply those that I've committed to supporting with the
> resources available to me.
>
> "Who uses [[<<]] and why?":  I've remarked many times that [[<<]]
> is ugly and I'd love to replace it with something better, but
> haven't come up with anything.  I'm definitely open to proposals.  
> The primary purpose of [[<<]] is to be able to invoke a
> "clear=all" to move content below any floating items.  If we get
> rid of [[<<]], we almost certainly need something to replace it.
>
> "Text indented with spaces no longer generates preformatted text.":
> I've already remarked that it will be easy to disable this
> sometime in 2.2.0-beta, I just haven't had a chance to implement
> it yet.  I'm not entirely against having leading-spaces-preformat
> disabled by default (instead of enabled as it is now), such that 
> it's a local customization option, but my reading of past 
> discussions on this topic has been that there are roughly equal 
> numbers of people on either side of the issue.
>
> The other note that indented text connects to previous indents
> is of course already implemented in PmWiki.
>
> "Header syntax changes to use a single ! to indicate a normal
> H3 sized header.":  As given by W3C's WAI guidelines, if <h1>
> is used for a page's title then "normal" headings really 
> ought to be at the <h2> level.  We could ore say that a single 
> ! should produce an <h2>, but I think that the doubled markup
> character is easier to spot.  (And for those who know HTML,
> knowing that !! == <h2> is a nice mnemonic.)  
>
> Beyond that, being somewhat consistent with other markup systems
> is probably a good idea, and I don't know of any markups that
> do headings along the lines of the proposed !> (heading indent)
> and <! (heading outdent) syntax.  I think many authors would think
> the end result looks pretty weird.  For example, consider the
> following markup:
>
>     ! heading 1
>     !> heading 2
>     ! heading 3
>     ! heading 4
>
> In looking at this it's not at all obvious to me that heading 3
> and heading 4 are at the same level as heading 2 (not heading 1).
> Also, once I'm nested two or three levels in, how do I get back
> to the top level in one jump?
>
> "Spaces are possible in pagenames.":  As noted in 
> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/RoadMap, I'm planning to
> allow pagenames to have spaces at some point in PmWiki's future --
> likely in 2.3.0.  The hard part isn't necessarily the spaces,
> but rather how to add this feature without totally breaking
> existing sites.
>
> At any rate, when spaces are incorporated in pagenames, PmWiki
> will undoubtedly use underscores for spaces, as that's more
> consistent with what people have come to expect on the web.
>
> "...remove the [=...=] syntax from being used often.":  I'm
> all in favor of this.  We obviously need some form of "escape"
> syntax, but if we come up with a better one we migrate things
> over to it, and we can probably be cleaning up the existing 
> documentation to avoid it where it's no longer necessary.
>
> Lastly, before designing a whole new markup syntax, keep in mind
> that there are often very good reasons for the existing markup, and
> for not designing a new markup in a vacuum.  In particular,
> it would probably be a good idea to look carefully at
> Creole (http://www.wikicreole.org/), which a lot of wiki engines 
> are adopting as a simplified wiki markup.  (In fact, having
> re-examined the Creole specification just now, I think it's
> very likely that PmWiki will offer Creole support very soon
> now, especially since most of the Creole syntaxes are already
> very close to PmWiki's defaults in many areas.  More on this
> soon.)
>
> Lastly lastly, for the record, I'm all in favor of having
> "specialized" communities within the PmWiki wikisphere
> that don't directly depend on me for support.  We see this 
> happening already with things such as ZAP, WikiPublisher, 
> WikiForms, etc., and it's what I've aspired to for PmWiki
> all along.  I can even host mailing lists and custom wiki
> installations for these specialized communities if desired.
> (This offer is also true for Slender, if it looks as though
> Slender makes it beyond the discussion/proposal stage.)
>
> Pm
>
> _______________________________________________
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> pmwiki-users at pmichaud.com
> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>                               
>
>   

-- 

Henrik Bechmann
www.osscommons.ca
www.bechmannsoftware.com
Webmaster, www.dufferinpark.ca

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