<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Been there, done that. It's a very workable, simply implemented
system. <br>
<br>
Sure 'frames' are a 'dirty' word to many technonerds (on the list and
others) who've graduated to php, css and other more advanced webware
options. However, as you've discovered, frames are simple and very
functional option for solving numerous problems, plus they are easily
handled by all modern browsers. <br>
<br>
This sort of situation reminds me of a time when I was an 8 year old
fascinated by a simple 4 x 4 slide puzzle. I'd figured out how to
solve any scrambling in about 2 minutes or less. My 80 plus year old
Grandpa was visiting. He was an old time civil engineer who worked on
lots of milepost transit implementations that are still recognized as
engineering accomplishments. I challenged him to finish the puzzle in
less than two minutes. He looked at it and said no problem -- he'd
said he'd take less than a minute... "NO WAY!", I got out my watch
and said "GO". He got out his pocket knife, popped out the tiles, put
them back in order -- 22 seconds.... WOW! I said "You cheated".
He said "How so? You said the goal was to solve the problem in less
than a minute -- took me 22 seconds..." Lesson learned... Some
haven't been there done that just yet... <br>
<br>
Donald Z. Osborn wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid680e31740609271447g3cd028dbm2862defb0f866c9c@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Thanks. I have set up something fast and dirty using
frames (framesets)
that accomplishes the immediate objective. I tried doing something with
iframes but it somehow did not work. In any event, the answer is a lot
simpler than I had thought, though we'll see how it goes for
functionality. If users go for it and have feedback, then I'll have to
look into more involved solutions.<br>
<br>
One drawback of this solution I can see already is that there's only
one set of Fwd and Back buttons for the two frames, and if you go back
it acts on the most recently active frame (and then the next in reverse
chronological order). So the wiki navigation has to be clear - the more
into subpages you get on the 2 frames, the more likely the single back
button will become an issue...<br>
<br>
A rudimentary gateway page (never mind the inferior translations -
we'll get to them) is at: <a href="http://www.panafril10n.org/wiki/">http://www.panafril10n.org/wiki/</a>
- there are
2 views offered (again this is a kind of experiment).<br>
<br>
Don<br>
<br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/26/06, <b
class="gmail_sendername">Joachim Durchholz</b> <<a
href="mailto:jo@durchholz.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jo@durchholz.org</a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Donald
Z. Osborn schrieb:<br>
> Maybe its just that they were often being used for the<br>
> wrong purposes (like to set up a sidebar)?<br>
<br>
It's really a browser issue. If browsers showed the URLs of all the<br>
frames (possibly in an abbreviated form), and saved the entire frameset
<br>
in bookmarks instead of just the main frameset-defining page, framesets<br>
would be easy to use.<br>
<br>
> Also since an increasing number of users will be in Africa with
often older<br>
> systems, I'm concerned about usability. Of course one can have
noframes
<br>
> option, but if there were sth better than frames (with options)
then that<br>
> would be if interest.<br>
<br>
You can use CSS to generate scrollbars. (Might become an option with<br>
newer IE browsers.)<br>
An alternative is iframes - browsers tend to carp about them, but only
<br>
if the included frame is from a different domain than the outside area.<br>
<br>
> The main thing is to facilitate simultaneous views of two pages
from the<br>
> wiki for comparison, navigation and editing.<br>
<br>
For comparison, you'll probably end up with a table. Correlating two<br>
similar pages using scroll bars isn't fun, it's far better to have the<br>
software pair up the correlated chunks of text for you.<br>
<br>
Navigation and editing are indeed cases for separately scrollable
areas.
<br>
<br>
> It would be nice if one could<br>
> move the bar of a frame separating 2 frames to get a larger view
of one<br>
> frame at the expense of another.<br>
<br>
I know of no technique for that, except framesets.
<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
Jo<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
pmwiki-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
</a><br>
<a href="http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
pmwiki-users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com">pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users">http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users</a>
</pre>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Always, Dr Fred C
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:drfredc@drfredc.com">drfredc@drfredc.com</a></pre>
</body>
</html>