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Hi Trevor.<br>In my experience pmwiki lends itself well to starting simple, sandboxing, adding functionality as you recognise the need.<br><br>Unless your needs are very simple, or your mind is very disciplined, you ain't going to get it right first time...and that is not a crime.<br><br><div><font color="#660099" face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" size="4"><strong><em>Ray Storey</em></strong></font></div>
<div>mob: +66 8 9020 6237</div>
<div>Homepage: <a href="http://www.all-my-world.com">http://www.all-my-world.com</a> </div><br><br><br><br>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:06:36 +0200<br>> From: twylite@crypt.co.za<br>> To: pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com<br>> Subject: Re: [pmwiki-users] Recommended recipes?<br>> <br>> Thanks everyone for your responses.<br>> <br>> With regard to stability, active maintenance and potential conflicts: <br>> Petko, Kathryn, and Eemeli all suggested looking at the Discussion, <br>> ChangeLog and ReleaseNotes sections of the recipe page; coupled with an <br>> assessment of how active the author is in the community by looking at <br>> this mailing list, the RecentChanges page and responsiveness to <br>> questions/discussions on the recipe page.<br>> <br>> This sounds like excellent advice once you have a smallish set of <br>> candidate recipes, and as such is a solution to part of my problem. But <br>> it remains a little overwhelming when hundreds of recipes are involved.<br>> <br>> Kathryn Andersen wrote:<br>> >> > I have now committed quite a lot of time & effort into this research, <br>> >> > and I have still failed to answer my basic questions:<br>> >> > (1) which recipes does everyone find useful<br>> >> <br>> > That is an impossible question to answer, because "useful" depends<br>> > on what people use PmWiki for, and PmWiki is so flexible that it<br>> > can be used for a great many things.<br>> ><br>> > What is more relevant to your needs is to actually say what you<br>> > want and need to do with PmWiki, what kind of recipes you would<br>> > therefore need, and allow people to comment on that subset of recipes.<br>> > <br>> It's a bit of a catch-22. As I mentioned in my mail I am intending to <br>> set up 2 sites:<br>> (1) A knowledge base for my development team, with additional support <br>> for issue tracking and CRM.<br>> (2) A personal web site with a blog (allowing public comments), a <br>> knowledge base section (allowing public comments) and a collaborative <br>> development section (open for all editing).<br>> <br>> Beyond that, I don't know enough specifics about what I want until I am <br>> either aware of a problem that needs to be solved (e.g. page spam, need <br>> a ToC, etc) or I am aware of functionality that exists and I think "that <br>> would be nice". <br>> <br>> So basically if I don't know it exists, I'm not going to look for it <br>> unless I have a specific problem that needs to be solved. Which means <br>> that short of browsing through all the recipes I won't find ones that <br>> could be enhancements rather than just solutions.<br>> <br>> Looking at Wikis in general and knowing now a little about what <br>> functionality PmWiki lacks (in the core), I can tell that most people <br>> will want extensions to solve the following problems (and the <br>> ListOfBundles-Candidates confirms this):<br>> <br>> * Table of Contents<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/PageTableOfContents looks widely <br>> used, well supported, and is part of the PublishPDF library (which seems <br>> like a good thing). Uses (:toc:)<br>> But http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/HandyTableOfContents is also <br>> promising and - being JavaScript - may work in situations where <br>> PageTableOfContents won't because of generated content. Uses (:htoc:)<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/NumberedHeaders also sounded useful <br>> (especially in a corporate environment), but appears to be obsolete <br>> because PageTableOfContents can do numbering now ... but that fact isn't <br>> immediately obvious. Uses (:toc:) and other markup.<br>> Then there is http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/SlimTableOfContents, <br>> which will work with SectionEdit -- implying that other ToC recipes like <br>> PageTableOfContents won't (and I still don't know the answer to that <br>> until I try). Uses (:toc:) or (:toc:)<br>> While some of these recipes have compatible markup, other's don't (or <br>> have extended markup that would be incompatible across recipes). <br>> Discovering a month in that I have made a poor choice will mean altering <br>> the markup on numerous pages.<br>> <br>> * Rename pages<br>> Any non-trivial Wiki will require periodic content maintenance and <br>> reorganisation, and this will often require pages to be renamed.<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/RenamePage seems to do the job, it <br>> is widely used and listed as stable. The discussion section indicates a <br>> couple of corner cases (e.g. moving unqualified attachments, unqualified <br>> links).<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MovePage is an alternative, and <br>> suggests that RenamePage has problems.<br>> RenamePage hints at consequences to moving between Groups (unqualified <br>> attachments may go astray), but I don't see any discussion on any recipe <br>> page of the interaction between page renaming and <br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/UploadPlus. Are there situations <br>> (similar to page renaming) that may affect the choice to use a <br>> CustomPageStore or to group uploads?<br>> <br>> * Restricted delete<br>> Recovering deleted pages is often not straightforward (sometimes not <br>> possible at all, sometimes not possible through the web interface), so <br>> it can be desirable to restrict page deleting to some set of authorised <br>> users.<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/DeleteAction seems to be the PmWiki <br>> approach for doing this.<br>> <br>> * Diff between arbitrary revisions<br>> Most Wikis have this functionality; PmWiki seems to lack it.<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/ViewDiff appears to do this<br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/InlineDiff also looks like a <br>> popular/useful enhancement, but doesn't appear to diff arbitrary <br>> revisions. Are these two compatible? Also InlineDiff has a "modified <br>> version" attached to the bottom of the page; is that a separate <br>> (unnamed) recipe?<br>> <br>> * Typographic extensions<br>> Something I haven't encountered often and wouldn't know to look for is <br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MarkupExtensions . I first came <br>> across it looking for Footnote support (a feature I find very useful and <br>> which is quite common amongst Wikis). MarkupExtensions contains a <br>> number of nice-to-haves, and it seems popular in the PmWiki community.<br>> <br>> * A better way to handle attachments<br>> Most CMS, Blog or Wiki software that supports attachments provides <br>> built-in support or extensions to manage attachments: rename, delete, <br>> show size and download count, etc.<br>> At a glance there are about a dozen extensions that may do this: <br>> AttachDelete, AttachIcons2, AttachImageSize, AttachLinks, <br>> AttachlistEnhanced, AttachListSort, AttachSize and <br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Attachtable. The latter seems to <br>> have the most functionality but is also the newest (few recommendations <br>> an little information on the extent of its use).<br>> <br>> <br>> In addition I have encountered a couple of extensions that everyone <br>> should know about:<br>> <br>> * http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/NewPageBoxPlus<br>> NewPageBoxPlus seems to be an excellent building block for just about <br>> any site that requires pages based on a template. For example it is <br>> trivial to build a lightweight CRM by creating a "Customers" group with <br>> a NewPageBoxPlus to create new customer pages from an appropriate <br>> template. <br>> There are alternatives, including <br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Fox from the same author which seems <br>> extremely powerful but also a lot more complex (and it competes with <br>> other Forms recipes, so they may also warrant consideration).<br>> If I hadn't encountered NewPageBoxPlus I may have moved on to evaluating <br>> another Wiki engine!<br>> <br>> * http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/NotsavedWarning<br>> "Warn authors when they move away from a page without saving it." The <br>> potential value of this extension speaks for itself.<br>> <br>> * http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/WikiStylesPlus<br>> <br>> ===<br>> <br>> Which brings me to the following points:<br>> <br>> (A) Possibly the most useful resource I have come across so far are the <br>> pages in http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Category/Bundles. This, to me, is <br>> evidence of people with an investment in PmWiki saying "this is what I <br>> find useful". But I was hesitant to put too much value on that <br>> information because some pages (e.g. ListOfBundles-Candidates) have not <br>> been edited in 2 years.<br>> I think that extending and updating this information - particularly <br>> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Bundle - will be very helpful.<br>> <br>> (B) Perhaps the most useful feedback I have received is this from Petko<br>> > And I believe you can have a peace of mind with a recipe released by Pm, <br>> > Dominique Faure or Eemeli Aro, among others. There are other active developers <br>> > in the community, I just haven't had the need to use and the time to review <br>> > their recipes.<br>> > <br>> ... along with responses from Chris Cox and Kathryn Andersen. This is <br>> community knowledge that is not readily available to a newcomer. This <br>> gives me a lot more confidence in selecting recipes.<br>> <br>> Question: what about John Rankin and HansB - they also seem to be listed <br>> as maintainers for a lot of extensions?<br>> <br>> (C) Eemeli Aro wrote:<br>> > Regarding recipe status, perhaps we need some kind of recommended set<br>> > of terms to use, along with a page giving a slightly longer<br>> > description of each term, as I for example have ended up with a<br>> > perpetual beta for all my recipes since "stable" seems like a rather<br>> > strong term to use.<br>> > <br>> I think this is a really excellent idea. At the very least it should be <br>> possible to distinguish "not for production use" from "probably good <br>> enough for production use and a couple of people are using it" and <br>> "running without problems for a year on our huge public site".<br>> <br>> (D) Eemeli Aro wrote:<br>> > 2009/8/27 Peter Bowers <pbowers@pobox.com>:<br>> > <br>> >> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Petko Yotov<5ko@5ko.fr> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> >> We have discussed such votes/endorsements systems, I hope we'll be able to add<br>> >>> >> one soon. I also hope that users will vote.<br>> >>> <br>> >> ><br>> >> > +100 on adding one soon!<br>> >> ><br>> >> > [He said, without much hope and completely in the dark as to why<br>> >> > previous seemingly fruitful discussions on the topic[1] have fallen<br>> >> > flat.]<br>> >> <br>> ><br>> > Seconding Peter on this. Is it Petko or PM we should be prodding to get this moving?<br>> > <br>> May I suggest a download count on each recipe? To my mind this would <br>> produce valuable information more quickly and with less dependence on <br>> community participation than a voting scheme. Combining the two would <br>> be first prize.<br>> <br>> ===<br>> <br>> What I'd like to do next is get some feedback on the recipes I listed <br>> above (Table of Contents .. NotSavedWarning) and use that feedback to <br>> update http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Bundle. I'm also keen to <br>> hear any other similar suggestions (generally useful recipes that <br>> provide functionality common in other Wikis or CMSs).<br>> <br>> I also have a notion that the concept of Bundles could be supplemented <br>> by a FAQ-like list of recommendations, preempting the sort of questions <br>> that would be asked on this list. This would be similar to the <br>> "Questions answered by this recipe" section in each recipe, but focused <br>> on recommending one of several possible answers.<br>> e.g.<br>> Q: I want a Table of Contents, what recipe should I use? A: <br>> PageTableOfContents is right for most people; it produces a ToC and <br>> optionally numbered headings...<br>> Q: I want to add an Issue Tracker to my Wiki, what recipe(s) should I <br>> use? A: ...<br>> <br>> <br>> Regards,<br>> Trevor<br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> pmwiki-users mailing list<br>> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com<br>> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users<br><br /><hr />Click Here <a href='http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsearch%2Fsearch%2Easpx%3Fexec%3Dgo%26tp%3Dq%26gc%3D2%26tr%3D1%26lage%3D18%26uage%3D55%26cl%3D14%26sl%3D0%26dist%3D50%26po%3D1%26do%3D2%26trackingid%3D1046138%26r2s%3D1&_t=773166090&_r=Hotmail_Endtext&_m=EXT' target='_new'>View photos of singles in your area</a></body>
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