[Pmwiki-users] Call for Template Simplicity

corq corq
Wed Feb 11 08:16:02 CST 2004


I like the ship-with-CSS template idea, but perhaps turned off (Am I
agreeing or  disagreeing here?  I'm not sure.).

Pmwiki hops up and runs on it's own pretty darn quickly, and that's the big
feature for any admin without a lot of time spent configuring. I would leave
default settings for more elaborate features "switched off" in the release,
but with  clear "Getting started" instructions that point to what *more* can
be done once the basic package is functional.

I agree that pmwiki's appeal would grow if it looked more like a traditional
site than a wiki, but that offering both flavors keeps everyone happy.
Perhaps run the basic flavor at installation (looking traditional wiki-like
look), with perhaps a couple of jpg's in the documentation showing "what
your wiki *can* look like!" if you wish to enable the skins or css, and give
precise directions for configuring such. I think the only hurdle that really
exists is making certain in the documentation that the methods to
enabling/disabling features are concise and straightforward. I think with
that, everybody wins.

-- Lori aka corqspy



-----Original Message-----
From: Pmwiki-users-bounces at pmichaud.com
[mailto:Pmwiki-users-bounces at pmichaud.com] On Behalf Of Patrick R. Michaud
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 9:04 AM
To: Steven Leite
Cc: pmwiki-users at pmichaud.com
Subject: Re: [Pmwiki-users] Call for Template Simplicity

On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 11:39:09AM -0800, Steven Leite wrote:
>    There's  no  doubt about it, any Admin that is installing PmWiki (even
>    for the first time) will follow these steps before anything else:
>    1)  Get it installed and working
>    2)  Customize it!
>    I  think  we  can  improve  on  Step  2  by not shipping PmWiki with a
>    css-based template (by default).

I'm very interested in hearing more opinions on this point.  Although we can
certainly stick with PmWiki's traditional layout, I've been migrating PmWiki
to a css-based version for a number of reasons--

- Marketing: I think that PmWiki looks more attractive to potential
  users if the main PmWiki site looks more like a standard web site
  and less like a traditional wiki.  The current default layout on
  pmichaud.com is about to change, you can see the new default by
  going to http://www.pmichaud.com/wiki/PmWiki/PmWiki?skin=pmwiki.

- Admin expectations:  It's nice if the shipped version of PmWiki looks
  very similar to what the admin has just seen on the PmWiki web site.

- Popular Demand:  Two of the most popular recipes in the Cookbook are
  the FlexLayout and WebMenu recipes (especially WebMenu), so I'm
  thinking it's more convenient if they come "pre-installed" and
  with a default configuration.

- Review of existing site practices:  In reviewing the existing
  PmWikiUsers list, sites seem to fall in three categories:
    1. Sites with little customization (basically just changing the logo)
    2. Sites using a css-based FlexLayout/WebMenu
    3. Sites that are heavily customized
  Admins in category #2 will be pleased that the default is already
  css-based.  Admins in category #3 aren't really affected by the
  default PmWiki settings, however, my experience thus far is that
  the new layout makes it much easier to achieve many of the
  effects that these admins are looking for.  That just leaves category
  #1--folks who've done little customization.  I figure that most of
  these admins would appreciate a more advanced layout but didn't want
  to do a lot of customization to get there.  Of course, it's possible
  that these admins prefer a simple layout, in which case it's *very*
  easy in the new layout scheme to turn off the CSS (essentially one
  just does $PageSkin='none'; in local.php).

The question really comes down to  "What do we want a (new) admin's initial
impression and experience of PmWiki to be?"  I can see good arguments in
favor of starting with a simple layout and the admin gains experience/
familiarity by customizing it to a more complex one.  But I also see value
in providing an initial "Wow!" experience, as the admin installs the
software and thinks "Wow, everything is already set up, I only need to
change the logo and colors and I'm ready to go!".

>From a technical perspective, either of these approaches (or others I
haven't thought of) are pretty easy to achieve, so I'm just looking for the
approach that provides the best impression of PmWiki to new admins.

This is an excellent topic and I really would appreciate any comments or
opinions others might suggest.

Pm

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