[pmwiki-users] New WikiGroups on pmwiki.org [Was: Volunteering for a PITS issue]

shout at joshleepictures.com shout at joshleepictures.com
Sun Oct 7 05:36:18 CDT 2012

+1 for moving skins to a new group. especially without having search relevance sorting, searching the cookbook will definitely benefit from moving thematically grouped pages into dedicated groups. That said, would it be semantically better (as in more precise, as in more human-readable and ‘wildcardable’, e. g. for searches etc.) to name the resulting group CookbookSkins/ (or SEO: Cookbook-Skins/)? I am the first to admit though, that I do actually have little knowledge about the current naming conventions for groups/pages on pmwiki.org/wiki (apart from that localization is done by appending the ISO 639-1 language abbreviations in wikiword style without delimiter). That said I would semantically prefer CookbookZh-Skins/, CookbookFr-Skins/, etc. for the localized cookbook pages, but cannot tell whether Cookbook-SkinsZh/, Cookbook-SkinsFr/, etc. would be better from a technical point of view (e. g. wildcard searches/pagelists).

As for *-Users and *-Talk, imho there is no perfect way to go about this. I am all for only having a single *-Users page, which is identically for all Cookbook*/. The static text part can be automatically handled with XL-Page to show up in the right language version. 

Given that most cookbook recipes seem to be primarily maintained by the original author, having *-Talk in localized languages seems to only make sense for the languages the original author does actually speak/write/read. On the other hand that will probably limit the amount of feedback on the recipes, especially given the fact, that it is safe to assume that a major part of internet users will not write/read English, but Chinese in the near future. This of course is only relevant for recipes that offer (in this case) a Chinese localization in the first place. From my point of view it does make sense to localize the *-Talk pages nevertheless. Why? Imagine an original recipe author only offering a German or Portuguese (but no English) recipe page. In that case a generic -Talk page for all languages (which would ultimately result in at least technically assuming that the page’s content is written in English) does not make any sense at all. And as PmWiki is author-driven/-oriented we should make sure the original author does not have to learn English just for having a -Talk page, right?

Having a lot of personal experience in multi-language installations of PmWiki (and multi-language translation workflows), I usually split the languages into different farms with all other languages falling back to the primary language farm (usually en or en-US) whenever the page is not yet localized. This does make it a lot easier for people to translate pages as they just have to edit the base version in the new language and can go from there. Again this is an ultimately author/translator-driven approach and severely limits certain functionalities (e. g. checking whether a page exists in another language) unless introducing custom markup handling those tasks. 

Take care

p.s.: talking about relevance weighted search results: I have used the SortByScore recipe and apart from lacking support for LocalTemplates (or any ftm= for that matter) it does a really nice job.

On Oct/07, 2012, at 0941 , Simon wrote:

> See also
> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/RoadMap-Talk
> and
> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/RoadMap
> for more thoughts.
> On 7 October 2012 09:20, Petko Yotov <5ko at 5ko.fr> wrote:
> Ian MacGregor writes:
> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PITS/01233
> I noticed that there is an open issue regarding:
> "Refactor skins into a separate group"
> I can help move the skins over to a new Group but what needs to be done server-side regarding this? Once that is done I can begin moving the skins and skins gallery related pages over.
> Sorry for the delay, thanks for volunteering to do this, and thanks for all the work you've already done moving the comments from recipes to talk pages.
> I'd like to have some arguments from the community why we should or shouldn't have a dedicated Skins/ group.
> Thinking more globally, should we do something for the other languages, especially, should we have a SkinsFr/ and a CookbookFr/ WikiGroups for the French language pages (among 20 languages)?
> If so, should we have separate *-Talk and *-Users pages for the other language versions? Or we could have a global Talk/ and Users/ wikigroups automatically related to all CookbookBg/ and CookbookDe/ pages which are just versions of the Cookbook/ page in English. (Moving existing *-Users pages to a different group will be done automatically, not manually.)
> If we can agree on this, I'll make the necessary changes to the server and I can move the current skins to the new Skins/ group automatically, no need to do anything manually.
> Thanks,
> Petko
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