[pmwiki-users] Delete EditGettingStarted, CharacterMarkup, LineMarkup (and more)? (Oliver Betz)

Oliver Betz list_ob at gmx.net
Sun Feb 8 10:19:05 CST 2009

john.rankin at affinity.co.nz wrote:

>> there is a cluster of pages in the PmWiki/ group which is in my
>> opinion mostly obsolete and redundant, since the information is
>> contained in the edit quick reference and the pages linked from there.
>The intended audience for these pages is absolute beginners who
>have never used a wiki before and never used markup before, but
>wish to learn. While it is true that the information is found in other
>places, these either assume a knowledge of how wikis work and
>how to use markup or they provide a level of detail that may be
>overwhelming for the absolute beginner.
>Sometimes it helps to see things from more than one perspective.
>You are free to ignore them if you find them unhelpful.
>If there is no requirement for a set of introductory pages for new
>users, then they can, I think, be safely deleted. However, I urge
>caution, as the number one reason I hear for not using a wiki is,
>"I will not use it because it is not wysiwyg". They then point to a
>long list of markup rules that are "hard to learn".
>So while the information is a repetition of that found elsewhere,
>the pages are not necessarily redundant. Of course, they may
>not be fulfilling their intended purpose either.

Although I generally agree with you that an alternate view and a quick
and easy introduction could be useful, I have several problems with
_this_ cluster of pages:

- I don't see that the absolute beginner even would find these pages
since they are not linked from outside (besides BlockMarkup).

- The pages are not very well maintained IOW not up to date and maybe
not even correct.

- The terminology differs from that of the other documentation.

- IMO they are not easier to understand than BasicEditing and

>Just my 10¢ worth.
>> LineMarkup: Wrong title, redundant.
>What would be a correct title? I have never known what to call
>markup that starts a line and affects the behaviour of the whole
>line and only the line. Start-of-line markup? Line markup seems
>simpler and clearer to me.

A heading is a structural element, not "formatting". A list item can
span more than a line and is also more structural than "formatting".
Indented or hanging paragraphs are also not "lines". I don't
understand "Compound line markup": '->' is _one_ markup, nothing

>> BlockMarkup: Is linked from the Documentation Index. The bottom part
>> is IMO redundant and does not dfescribe "block markup". Could be
>> merged with WikiStyles and Cookbook/DivisionsExplained.
>This is a good example of how edits to a page have over time
>changed its purpose. The EditGettingStarted page defines block
>markup as follows:
>Some markup affects the display of several lines of text --
>or text blocks.

<splitting hairs> According to this definition, lists and paragraphs
would be block markup - both are described in LineMarkup. </splitting

>Under this definition, the bottom part of the page does indeed
>describe block markup, whereas the top part of the page now
>suggests that "block markup" is only about wikistyles.

I don't know the full history of BlockMarkup. But currently, the first
part added 2007-04-11 by "simon" doesn't explain more than WikiStyles,
so I think it's redundant.

Line breaks and [@ @] are described in Site/EditQuickReference and

[= =] is described in Site/EditQuickReference and TextFormattingRules.

Note that the description of [@ @] and [= =] in BlockMarkup differs
from Site/EditQuickReference, BasicEditing, TextFormattingRules at
least regarding the terminology.

>If these pages are deleted, there is AFAIK nowhere else in the
>documentation that offers a logical way to understand wiki
>markup. Exhibit A is TextFormattingRules and Exhibit B is
>MasterMarkupIndex. It seems a shame to lose the markup
>classification scheme (grammar) that these pages present.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you want to express - please bear
in mind that English is a foreign language for me.

IMO EditQuickReference, BasicEditing and TextFormattingRules give a
very well introduction to PmWiki markup.

After revisiting this topic _very_ thoroughly, I still don't see the
benefit of EditGettingStarted, CharacterMarkup, LineMarkup over
EditQuickReference, BasicEditing and TextFormattingRules. But I'm not
sure enough to delete them without support from others.

I also don't consider BlockMarkup better to understand or adding new

Oliver Betz, Muenchen (oliverbetz.de)

More information about the pmwiki-users mailing list